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<title>How Other Couples Do It - The Blog</title>
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<title>Marriage: Nasty, brutish, and short?</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>There's gobs of advice for couples out there that basically assumes that men and women are naturally in competition to satisfy their individual needs: <a href="http://www.marsvenus.com/couples/index.php">Mars/Venus</a>, <a href="http://www.therulesbook.com/">The Rules</a>, <a href="http://cosmo.ninemsn.com.au/">Cosmo</a>, etc. I've found less that assumes that couples are alligned in common interests, whether that be love, sex, or children.</p>

<p>I initially wanted to contrast competive versus cooperative visions of sexual or family relationships, and compare them to capitalist versus socialist visions of society. I thought I'd start with <a href="http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96jun/smith.html">Adam Smith</a> and his premise that self-interest is the strongest motivator, and <a href="http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/nature/hobbes-quotes.html">Hobbes</a> and his idea that, "During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that conditions called war; and such a war, as if of every man, against every man," -- in short, their assumption that people are basically assholes who would kill each other just as soon as look at each other (a simplification, I know -- and they disagree, pretty profoundly, I think, on how to handle this). And then contrast that with <a href="http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96jun/rousseau.html">Rousseau's</a> idea of the nobel savage and the family as the only natural <a href="http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/5d.htm#contr">social contract</a>. And maybe the Marxist idea that <a href="http://home.student.uva.nl/willem.frankenhuis/">there is no human nature</a> and <a href="http://www.stier.net/teaching/ih52/notes/marx/alien.htm">"human productive activity is social in nature"</a>, thus people not only can, but must get along. But the more I thought about it, the less optimistic the Marx view of society seemed, with its emphasis on class struggle (especially when applied to <a href="http://www.iso.org.nz/sr/4/socialism_womens_liberation.htm">marriage</a>.</p>

<p>(Although it's not really relevant to anything, I must highlight this quote I just found in <i><a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm">The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State</a></i>: "if strict monogamy is the height of all virtue, then the palm must go to the tapeworm, which has a complete set of male and female sexual organs in each of its 50-200 proglottides, or sections, and spends its whole life copulating in all its sections with itself." (quote is on <a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02.htm">this page</a>). I know that the Marx/Engles revelation  is that things can be <i>changed</i>, which is pretty optimistic, but what I want for the purposes of this argument is an essentially optimistic view of human society (Rousseau = optimistic about humans, pessimistic about society). </p>

<p>I thought I might find a more optimistic view of marriage, anyway, in <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09707a.htm">Catholicism</a>, but it turns out I know so little about religion I can barely wade through the hits, let alone refine my searches. Maybe the <a href="http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1149-1,00.html">Latter Day Saints"</a> are they way to go. Or maybe I'll get back to this later. </p>

<p>First, a few notes on the "pessimistic" literature:</p>

<p><b><a href="http://www.therulesbook.com/">The Rules</a></b> is only the most pernicious version. I think we're all familiar with the premise behind this one -- wait however long before calling back, if he doesn't call by such and such a day for a weekend date tell him you're busy, blah blah blah. But I think it's interesting that the testimonials on Rules website come from Beyonce Knowles and Kelly Rowland, of Destiny's Child. And are those lyrics from their <i>songs</i>? That would be an ineresting way to plug your pop psychology -- get some pop star to sing about it. You can find the rules I live <i>my</i> life by <a href="http://www.robertsrules.com/">here</a>. Maybe I'll ask my next date to follow Robert's Rules during dinner or whatever. Should cut down on interruptions, at least.</p>

<p><b><i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580628060/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance">Men Head East, Women Turn Right</a></i></b> sounds like bullshit to me from the title, but maybe that's just because I tend to use East/West instead of right/left (and because right/left is just STUPID when giving directions). </p>

<p>And then there's <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/068987474X/qid=1110744590/sr=1-12/ref=sr_1_12/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance&s=books">He's Just Not that into You: The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys</a></b>, which is depressing, and <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060817402/qid=1110744590/sr=1-18/ref=sr_1_18/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance&s=books">Be Honest--You're Not That Into Him Either: Raise Your Standards and Reach for the Love You Deserve"</a></b> which has a title that even I'd be embarrassed to use and I'm pretty sure the rest of it is of similar quality (how is it that both authors are men?). </p>

<p>Like I said, there's a million of these books, and I'm just scanning through Amazon's "marriage" category-- most are written for women (why is that?), and include promising titles such as:<br />
<b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060932910/ref=pd_sim_b_5/104-2277347-0966348?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance">Date Like a Man</a></b>, <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380713640/ref=pd_sim_b_4/104-2277347-0966348?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance">What Men Won't Tell You but Women Need to Know"</a></b>, <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972686304/ref=bxgy_cc_text_b/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance&s=books&st=*">Porch Dogs: The Unmuzzled Truth About Men and Our Relationships with Them</a></b>, <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967089328/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/104-2277347-0966348?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance">Men are Like Fish: What Every Woman Needs to Know About Catching a Man</a></b>.</p>

<p>Now, here's one that actually looks useful: <b><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312327943/qid=1110745429/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance&s=books">The Lazy Husband : How to Get Men to Do More Parenting and Housework</a></b> -- I say that not because of the title, but because the reader reviews say that it gave them concrete advice about housework, and that's what we're after with this project -- concrete advice.</p>

<p>Well, getting back to my Hobbes/Rousseau schtick. Individualism versus cooperativism. Marriage and society. Man and nature. Nurture or nature. Hmm. Well, I guess that's the point of a blog -- you don't actually have to finish a thought in order to post it.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/03/marsvenus.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/03/marsvenus.html</guid>
<category></category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:14:40 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Bitter Relationship Blogs (metablog entry)</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>So you'd think that blogs would be a good way to document the ins and outs and ups and downs of a relationship, and you'd be <a href="http://myboyfriendisatwat.com/">right</a>. Of course people like to blog about their <a href="http://www.thingsmygirlfriendandihavearguedabout.com/">arguments</a>, their <a href="http://myboyfriendsucks.blogspot.com/">sucky boyfriends</a>, <a href="http://users.rcn.com/scottstirling/2004/11/collected-divorce-blog-entries.html">divorces</a>, and goodness knows their sex lives (but I'll let you find those yourself). But so far! No blogs about housework. Unless you count our perennial favorite, <a href="http://www.wibsite.com/wiblog/dull/">the boring blog</a> (is that really it? did it really stop in 2003?).</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/bitter_relation_1.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/bitter_relation_1.html</guid>
<category></category>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:25:44 -0800</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Chore Charts</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Simplest <a href="http://www.abcteach.com/Extras/chores.htm">chore chart</a> ever!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/9835/chores.html">here's</a> one for kids that would be kind of funny to use on a partner, I suppose.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.christianadhd.com/freeresources.html">here</a> are an assortment of Christian ADHD charts for the downloadin'</p>

<p>"adult chore chart" brings me a couple links that I won't link here (it's funny how "adult" has become a synonim for "dirty" or "obscene").</p>

<p>Let it be noted that "chore jar" brings 155 google hits, whereas "chore chart" brings 10,700 (all for kids so far as I've seen), and "chore hat" brings 1,870, thanks largely to <a href="http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/downloads/sounds/homer_chorehat.mp3">Homer</a>.</p>

<p>I'm not having a lot of luck in internet-land. I may have to check out some actual <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/155870714X/104-2277347-0966348?v=glance">books</a> (especially ones that recommend "moisturizing one's feet with mashed fruit").</p>

<p>I'm really surprised there aren't more people out there with excel spreadsheets for this. I'll keep looking.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/chore_charts.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/chore_charts.html</guid>
<category>charts</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:45:59 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Men don&apos;t do as much housework as women</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I'm not saying this to be obnoxious, it's just that if you do a google search for "housework + research" it seems like all you get is about a million <a href="http://www.newint.org/issue181/facts.htm">irate</a> <a href="<a href="http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/newsletter/iprn0212/housework.html">articles </a> on how <a href="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_7-8_50/ai_n6079189">"the only consistent finding is that women still perform the bulk of household labor"</a> (citing Baxter, 1997), although they are doing <a href="http://www.children.smartlibrary.org/NewInterface/segment.cfm?segment=1964">more than they did in the 1970s</a>.</p>

<p>There is no <a href="http://www.scottishresearch.com/WhatsNew/News/Recent/tcm-26-42179.asp">antidepressent effect</a> from doing housework. Who said there was? Although it is pretty depressing living in a messy house.</p>

<p>OK -- blah blah blah on the housework front. I'm just frustrated that so far I don't find any nitty gritties on how people are dividing work or what have you. I haven't dug very deep yet, though.</p>

<p>And for men who are feeling hurt by all the man-bashing housework articles, try www.nomarriage.com, which includes articles such as: "Western bitches are panicking that men no longer want to support their fat nagging asses." I wonder if he runs a dating service?</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/men_dont_do_as_1.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/men_dont_do_as_1.html</guid>
<category>housework</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:05:13 -0800</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Heritage Foundation</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://www.heritage.org/index.cfm">Heritage Foundation</a> has a <a href="http://www.heritage.org/Research/Features/FamilyDatabase/">database</a> of abstracts for publications on the family, "The Heritage Foundation’s Family & Society Database catalogs social science findings on the family gleaned from peer-reviewed journals, books, and government surveys. Serving legislators and staffers, journalists and writers, teachers and students, as well as clergymen and helping professionals, the Database makes social science research easily accessible to the non-specialist." The publications themselves look pretty normal, although you do wonder if they use some kind of filter. I'm pretty sure I can just access something like <a href="http://www.apa.org/psycinfo/">psychinfo</a> through <a href="http://endnote.com/">Endnote</a>. </p>

<p>This reminds me -- I had a dream last night that I was in a romantic relationship with another woman. It was kind of a relief, because she was really nice (and I've been feeling pretty lonely lately), but then we went to bed and I remembered that I wasn't really all that into sex with other women. But then it was fun, so everything was okay! And then I woke up to Pica asleep on my pillow.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/heritage_founda.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/heritage_founda.html</guid>
<category>conservatives</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:25:47 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Gottman Institute</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>You know who has really good google placement for the term, "relationship research"? <a href="http://www.gottman.com/about/">these guys</a>. Seriously, they are #2 on google, and it looks to me like they are essentially just a married couple with a website. Granted, they have Ph.Ds. And they are still married. And they have a few publications (or he does, anyway). But other than that, what have they got over us? Well, they also have a small stable of therapists certified in their methods, which they then very link to on their flash map, including a therapist who describe himself as, "eclectic, with training in EMDR, hypnosis, and psychodynamic psychotherapy," but it looks to me like these are probably just people who took a seminar and then got themselves linked. </p>

<p>It's not that they don't have some interesting <a href="http://www.gottman.com/research/abstracts/detail.php?id=1">research</a> to report on; it's just that I'd think that publishing a few papers as an individual and offering a few seminars does not an institute make -- but obviously I'm wrong about that! Maybe instead of marrying, <a href="http://www.marysgreatideas.com/archives/2003/07/newish_great_idea_chris_and_i_patent_our_relationship_instead_of_getting_married.html">patenting</a>,  or incorporating as a form of symbolizing our commitment to each other, Chris and I should have formed an institute. Maybe it's not too late? But at this point it would be a platonic institute, and where's the fun in that? I like my institutes <a href="http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/">sexy</a>, just like I like my <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3055264.stm">germans</a>.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/gottman_institu_1.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/gottman_institu_1.html</guid>
<category>pop psychology</category>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:47:21 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>International Association for Relationship Research</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Chris and I should <a href="http://www.iarr.org/">join?</a> or at least go to their next conference -- I'll bet those are a hoot! Lame website, though. No content. I guess it's kind of interesting looking at the <a href="http://www.iarr.org/communication-home_pages.htm">members</a> -- but only kind of.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/international_a.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/international_a.html</guid>
<category>academic resources</category>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:40:14 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Websites with Relationship Advice</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Based on google search, “advice for couples”:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.lovingyou.com">loving you dot com</a></p>

<p>My notes: Wildly commercial! Full of quizzes, advice columns, etc. They do have a <a href="http://www.lovingyou.com/content/couples/content.shtml?ART=ltguide">guide to living together</a> but it's pretty vague -- just points out questions to ask before you move in.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/relationships/couples/">some BBC site on couples</a></p>

<p>Similar structure for content, but not much from community. Mostly advice from “experts” (i.e., the website).</p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/websites_with_r.html</link>
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<category>websites</category>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:29:10 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Some Research Questions</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I don't know what happened withthe formatting of that last entry -- that's what I get for thinking I know more HTML than "a href" etc.)</p>

<p>Anyway, what research questions? I think what I'll do is create a category for the various research questions I have.</p>

<p>Here are some of them:</p>

<p>1) What kinds of resources exist for couples grappling with the kinds of questions we have had? e.g., housework, finances, etc. (see below) How different or similar are they to what we have in mind? That is, is it advice by experts? How much testimony/description do they have from couples versus expert voices. </p>

<p>2) What kinds of quantitative research exists on how couples solve the problems we pose (e.g., "how many couples use a chart of some kind to divide up housework?"). I want to stay away from quantitative research; Chris thinks it would be interesting to have quantitative data. I'm hoping someone else has the data.</p>

<p>3) What DO the experts have to say?</p>

<p>Here are the problem/question areas we've defined so far:<br />
<ul><br />
<li>Housework (dividing chores, resolving different standards)<br />
<li>Sex (differing sexual drives and preferences)<br />
<li>Money (paying bills, inequity in earning power, spending habits)<br />
<li>Family (in laws, the decision to have children, rearing children)<br />
<li>Everything else people argue about! (religion, politics, pets, fitness, culture, sleep, food, and other sources of conflict)<br />
<li>Staying together and breaking apart (for long-term couples: how they decided to stay together, for those who break up, how they did so – might need to be its own book!)<br />
</ul></p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/some_research_q.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/some_research_q.html</guid>
<category>project outline</category>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:16:33 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Another Blog! (What is HOCDI?)</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Yay! We have another blog to write in! This one is devoted to documenting research for our new project, "How Other Couples Do It" (known affectionately as "HOCDI" in Wheeler/Higgins circles). Eventually we will add a nice description of the project. For now, I'll cut and paste a section from our proposal below.</p>

<p>Thanks to Chris for setting up the great blog!</p>

<p><b>How <i>do</i> other couples do it?</b><br />
<ul><br />
<li>How do you pay your bills?</li><br />
<li>How do you divide up housework?</li><br />
<li>How do you negotiate differences in your sex drives?</li><br />
<li>Did you get pregnant on purpose?</li><br />
</ul><br />
These are questions we wanted to ask our friends and family in the first years of our relationship, but for obvious reasons we refrained. Couples could learn a lot from each other, but there are some things that are just too private to ask. <i>How Other Couples Do It</i> is the project that <a href="http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/">Alfred Kinsey</a>, <a href= "http://www.studsterkel.org/">Studs Terkel</a> and <a href="http://www.oprah.com/">Oprah Winfrey</a> could have created in collaboration to answer these questions. </p>

<p>Kinsey showed us that there is both more variety and more commonality in human sexuality than previously thought. Studs Terkel showed us that the voices of people who have experienced something can be more compelling and more informative than experts and academics. Oprah Winfrey -- well, she's just fun. This project will explore taboo areas of housework, finance, and in-laws to show that couples of all kinds face the same challenges, and develop a myriad of solutions to them.  </p>

<p>Eventually it will collect and publish real-life solutions told by actual people in an anecdotal manner rather than obscure quantitative academic analysis or well-meant (but too-often boring) advice from experts, and it will engage rather than lecturing. </p>

<p>HOCDI is envisioned as a multi-stage project. Right now Chris is in the website development stage and I'm in the research stage. This blog will help document the questions we develop and the information we find in the field of relationship advice and related subjects. </p>]]></description>
<link>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/another_blog_wh.html</link>
<guid>http://www.marysgreatideas.com/couples/archives/2005/02/another_blog_wh.html</guid>
<category></category>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:47:23 -0800</pubDate>
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